Giving a Voice to the Voiceless

Interviews with trans and gender nonconforming kids

Photo by Denin Lawley on Unsplash

Talk of trans and gender nonconforming youth has exploded in recent years in media coverage. Doctors, journalists, and parents alike have weighed in on this hot button issue, but one group is notably silent through this: the trans and gender nonconforming youth themselves. It’s a grave disservice to not allow them a seat at the table, so I decided to conduct some interviews with them to get their side of the story. These are the people most affected by policy decisions around these discussions, and perhaps should be the ones with the largest voice here, but sadly that’s currently not the case. I am here to try and change that. 

The first person I talked to was a 16 year old Trans man from Maryland. He loves DND and is devoutly Jewish. Here’s a slightly edited version of his interview I ran by him before publishing to ensure accuracy: 

So how do you identify?

Luca: I identify as a man, and have happily identified as such for two years now.

Where are you located?

Luca: I’m up in Maryland

Are you out at home or at school?

Luca: Oh no, I’m still closeted, just not online. I’m only out to a VERY select few friends outside of school. It’s really difficult to be out in school, because my twin goes to the same school and it could easily be spread around. Or alternatively reach my older sister. 

Understandable, it’s a pretty dangerous proposition. I take it you think your family won’t be accepting?

Luca: Well, I know my family isn't accepting. I tried a test coming out as non-binary last year, and that wasn’t so good.

Coming out as non binary or gay to test the waters seems fairly common, it’s kinda the route I took. 

Luca: Yeah. I thought it would be fine because my twin used to identify as bi (she no longer does), but I guess it’s different with gender.

Besides worries about your family, do you think your school is generally accepting of trans kids? Gender nonconformity as well?

Luca: They really don’t have punishments in place for misgendering or bullying trans kids. Which is weird because they pride themselves on being a supposedly “progressive” school.

So gender is more stigmatized than sexual orientation you think?

Luca: I’m a very religious person. I grew up in a very orthodox Jewish community. The reason why gender is so much more stigmatized in the Jewish faith  is because of a passage in Devarim (Deuteronomy) I had to memorize when I went to a Jewish school. It’s 22:5, “A woman shall not wear a man’s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, your God.” It’s very isolating as a Trans Jewish child to hear that. Sometimes it’s a bit difficult. My religion is very important to me, so I don’t know if I want to sacrifice my identity in favor of that or if I want to throw away my entire past for the sake of my mental health. 

Believe me I know, I was raised Catholic myself and went to Catholic school. It’s hard to grapple with everything and be afraid your family and your community that are so important to you might turn against you. Have any teachers been better or worse about your gender? Like a drama teacher or a band teacher being ok?

Luca: Not really. I don’t really trust being out to adults.

Do you know any openly out kids at school or kids that are closeted?

Luca: Yes! I’m got a friend we’ll call W, who is an openly trans woman, transferring from *shivers* Catholic school. My other friend is an openly trans guy but no one knows because he passes too well, haha!

Does she get treated well?

Luca: Yes, thank Hashem, just not at the Catholic school.

Gotta love Catholic schools.  Do teachers and staff gender them both correctly?

Luca: W has to notify the school in advance, she’s on E but hasn’t done voice training yet so it’s easy for some adults to misgender her. R is not on hormones, but ya know, he just looks so much like a dude always he kinda doesn’t need them.

How’d you meet them? 

Luca: I met W on the first day of school. We’re both new students this year. 

You just kinda bumped into each other and became friends? 

Luca: Uh huh! I’m a shy person but I warmed up to her easily once she mentioned my special interests. 

What is the special interest you two bonded over?

Luca: D&D!

Ha! That's pretty unsurprising, no offense. It seems to me a lot of queer people tend to join together because of similar experiences and hobbies, which is currently being weaponized into the whole ‘social contagion’ rhetoric.

Luca: Yeah, my parents tried to use D&D last year as a way to say I can’t differentiate fantasy and fiction but don’t get me started on that…

That sucks. 

Luca: Yeah, that was certainly a thing. They comment on my love of fantasy as an excuse to ridicule my gender. At my old school I was in the D&D club there, but it did not ‘trans the kids’.

Do your parents think you’re still enby or did you say you weren’t any more?

Luca: I said I wasn’t. One time my dad looked at my journal about my dysphoria and I told him it was an original character. He’s believed that ever since. 

What's your plans for transition if you have any? Do you have something set out or is it more just going with the flow?

Luca: My goal is to live until 18, and then make my own decisions, like meeting up again with my doctor. 

So how long did you know you were trans? Or when exactly did you figure it out/ really have to struggle with your gender? 

Luca: Look, I’ve been weird about gender since I could walk. Always taking off my pretty princess dresses in favor of the teeny little tights and undershirt that I liked much more. I wasn’t taught that trans people existed until the summer after grade 8. My mental health was so bad at the time that I thought about ending it almost every day. Which was when I pulled up my phone and asked my therapist, “Why am I feeling this way?” She sent me some resources (can’t remember which, most likely NIH), and I almost cried. It’s exactly what I felt. Which is why these past few years have been so difficult, as I try to express myself without my family noticing. But yeah, it felt amazing to actually have the word and know that there are others out there with me.

You finally had an explanation for everything.

Luca: Since then, the online community has felt fucking awesome to be in. I could be in here without consequences. That is until December of last year when that incident happened.

For context on this: read this google doc. Be warned, it contains graphic depictions of abuse of minors. 

For those who wish to not wish to read that, here is a summary: an adult man in a voice acting server manipulated Luca and his friends by using an IP grabber to locate their addresses and blackmail them into performing sexual acts on camera. Luca is still traumatized by this, and the perpetrator is still at large. Clearly, while online safe spaces for queer youth are largely beneficial to them, there are those who wish to exploit those spaces. Better moderation of servers and more computer literacy for children (I.e. telling kids not to click on suspicious links, what to do if someone is trying to blackmail them, what hackers can and cannot do, etc.) could’ve prevented this tragic situation. Unfortunately, lawmakers are much more focused on simply shutting down these spaces rather than making them safer for children. Ultimately abusers will use other avenues of approach and leave queer kids without any escape from harassment in their everyday lives. Regardless, if you have any ideas as to the identity of this abuser or were victimized yourself, please contact me on Twitter @sarahkahncept or email at kaanfight@gmail.com so we can help bring him to justice. 

Luca, though, wanted to emphasize this point:

Luca: It’s important to note this is NOT what “made” me trans. 

Did anyone accuse that of being the case or did that just come from transphobic rhetoric online?

Luca: YES!! Someone did accuse me of that.

He linked me to another google drive of screengrabs, this time from a Gender Critical account attacking him. His abuse was mocked and he was told it was the cause of his ‘mental illness’. His photos were plastered on hateful accounts as ‘a warning to other children’ as one user put it. I shouldn’t have to tell you this is obscene behavior towards a child and an abuse victim.

Back to the interview:

A lot of adults harass kids online, has been for forever and this is no different. It’s terrible. It’s especially heinous considering they talk over you and claim to speak for you. Abusers should always be called out, and the fact that people are using that abuse to justify abusing you is insane.

Moving on a little bit, I’m sure this interaction impacts this next question, but how do you feel about the political climate around this stuff? In your state or federally that is? And what do you think the political climate should be or what policies there should be?

Luca: My state is generally alright, but the rest of America is damn near Hell. Thank god shit like abortion is okay in Maryland. I’m not entirely sure about trans laws in MD. 

I think there’s talks of making it a sanctuary state

Luca: Yeah, it’s generally alright. But The political climate is different. Because that’s not talking about Maryland. And the political climate is scary.

I truly think that there’s not much we can do right now to enact new policies for trans protection because the brass up top are so powerful.

I think everyone feels that way honestly it sucks. On a positive note, what kind of policies for trans protection, especially of minors, do you think would be best?

Luca: Get rid of having to tell parents before changing names in the school system. That one is really important to me. Like instead of being [BEEP]p34@[BEEEP] I want to to be Lucap34@[BEEEEEP] 

(numbers and initials changed here to protect privacy) 

I agree with that, here in Florida they implemented that and now anyone with a nickname has to run it by admin with a parents permission slip. Everyone hates it, it’s more paperwork for parents and teachers and admins and all it does is add your preferred name in parentheses on class lists.

Luca: Yeah no it’s a big thing in Maryland as well. My old guidance counselor kind of outed me. She made it so that I had to do my enby test with my family way earlier than I was comfortable with. I was in an all girl’s school. She wanted to call my parents. I was legit begging her not to do so. And this bitch really went “I’m sorry but these are the rules'. She did it anyway. 

You’ve been on the receiving end of these laws then, how did that make you feel?

Luca: Like I wanted to die. I actually had to make myself call the suicide hotline at one point. It was a dark time in my life.

What did your parents do after that?

Luca: They moved me to another school. 

Did they move you for protection or because they thought the school did something to you?

Luca: Neither. It was for their own gain, to gain control. They forced all the girls to only call me by my dead name. 

Ah so it was to isolate you from your friends?

Luca: Yeah, I do miss that school. Besides the psychological warfare, the constant audible badmouthing, the sex in the theater, the drugs in the bathroom, some of the ppl were chill. Like my best friend who I’ve known for 14 years now. 

Fair, at this new school you don’t have those chill people? 

Luca: Well don’t get me wrong I’ve got people, we are just nowhere near as close. Also the school forces us to share our pronouns which I’m sure has good intentions. It’s to make sure you don’t misgender people but it kind of forces me to lie. 

It’s a double edged sword. A very bureaucratic way of doing things.

Luca: And like I said there should really be a better punishment for dead naming or misgendering someone on purpose. 

Better protections against bullying?

Luca: Yeah, ALSO PADS IN MEN’S RESTROOMS! So trans people can still feel comfy.

To be honest that’s also good for cis guys with girlfriends so they can help them out in a pinch.

Luca: Yes. My whole thing is we shouldn’t have to have a pride club or committee getting shit done. It should’ve already happened after Stonewall. We don’t have a GSA chapter, we only have this pride club which wasn’t even school organized. 

Interesting, is this a public or private school? My understanding is they can’t stop you from having a GSA chapter if it’s a public school.

Luca: Private. Private schools don’t really have to do anything the government wants because the government doesn’t fund them. It’s a loophole they can explore the hell out of.

Ah, it all makes sense. Yeah, unfortunately they can do that. But to wrap things up, is there anything else you want to say or talk about? Like what do you wish was being told about you, your community, and your story that you feel isn’t being said?

Luca: I wish more people would stick up for me online when people like that woman harass the shit outta me. And I think I should be able to speak out without people making my being trans my only personality trait. OH YEAH THAT’S ONE MORE THING LET LGBTQ+ HISTORY BE PART OF THE CURRICULUM! 

Very valid. Speaking of that, you should read Alan Berube’s book “Coming Out Under Fire” about gay and lesbian soldiers in world war 2, it’s a fantastic look at queer history.

Luca: I will!

I think that will do it for us! Thanks for sharing with me. 

Luca: Thank you! 

The next person I interviewed was a gender-fluid teen 17 year old from Northern California named Valz. He/she is a furry, and an avid sports fan. This interview as well was run by the interviewee as well to ensure accuracy: 

How do you identify?

Valz: As right now, I identify as a gender fluid.....male? Female? I'm still trying to figure that one out

So you kinda go between pronouns?

Valz: Mhm, Indeed

You’ve told me earlier in a previous conversation you aren’t out as anything to your parents and I’m assuming nobody at school right?

Valz: Correct

How  long have you kind of felt like this? Has it been a while?

Valz: I have felt like this for I'd say the last almost 6 months or so, but I never really thought about it at first, it was just a thought in the back of my head, now I'm just genuinely questioning myself. 

And do you have any plans for the future to do anything medical or otherwise? Try out social transition or whatnot?

Valz: Social transition probably, medical stuff is something I'm gonna have to think about a lot so I'm not sure yet

You said you were into boys earlier.  When did you kinda figure that out?

Valz: I realized I was into boys around like....12 to 13 years old?

Did you get treated badly for that at school? I know you said there were problems at home previously.

Valz: Thankfully no one started asking questions at school at first, but during my sophomore and junior years at the school I really begged my mom to go to, people definitely started asking questions that I didn't know how to answer. And lately my dad has asked those very same questions.

What were the questions?

Valz: Just kinda basic stuff like "Valz, are you gay?" and that question would just pop up out of nowhere from certain people and I would be scared to answer. Knowing where I went to school, some people would definitely not enjoy my answer.

Was it used to bully you?

Valz: Yes, one of the reasons I don't go to that school anymore. Because whenever I got asked that question, I wouldn't know how to answer, I would get nervous and just freeze up, and it got used against me. I just feel bad because that's a school I really wanted to go to, all to just get bullied out of it.

I’m sorry. I’ve been through that too. You’ve felt pretty socially isolated because of that?

Valz: yes

 I’m guessing the school administrators there didn’t care about the bullying?

Valz: I tried telling them about it, but yea they just didn't seem to care.

Yeah that seems to be common. I’ve heard this narrative that gay people are transitioning to avoid bullying, do you think you’d get bullied less if you were just outwardly trans?

Valz: I honestly think it would be worse, most of that school was a bunch of hicks/wannabe rednecks and wannabe gangsters. 

How’d you kinda get into the furry community and start expressing yourself online?

Valz: I found the furry community through Instagram and whatnot, mostly the art I liked about it. Making your own character was a fun thing to do, so I made one and just started talking to people trying to meet others.

Do you think that helped you get through all the stuff happening in real life?

Valz: It was definitely an escape for sure yea. Something to get me away from reality.

Did you ever meet up with anyone irl or no?

Valz: Nah, not at all.

I met you in a furry football chat room. Did football also help you kinda escape?

Valz: Football, baseball, pretty much all sports leagues were another escape for me, even  before I joined the  furry fandom.

As someone gender questioning, what do you wish people talked about more about people like you in your position?

Valz: Realize the struggles that come with that kind of thing, the social isolation, the transphobia, bullying in schools, I just wish it got talked about more in this country to be honest. 

That about does it for me, thank you for your time Valz.

As you can see, the actual experiences of trans and gender nonconforming kids is quite different than what is touted by most media outlets. Those in the GC space will claim that kids are transitioning to be bullied less, but both of the interviewees say they are bullied more than if they were simply gay. The main issue these kids are dealing with is bullying, which is not emphasized enough by journalists. The effects of forced outing laws on children are clearly extremely harmful. Whatever inclusivity initiatives schools do employ are not indoctrination, but clumsy attempts that rarely achieve any meaningful result. Kids are not being rushed to transition, and these two show that they are open to many options regarding their healthcare. They are exploring their gender, and are often harassed for doing so. The type of exploration anti-trans journalists claim is needed is already happening. All of their faux outrage is contradicted by what’s happening on the ground: trans kids are being hurt by a broken system and need everyone’s help.

I’m going to make this a series, as I believe these stories are important to hear. I hope that one day this might become a repository for primary sources on trans youth or trans people. I wish for this to become like the work of Alan Berube as a place for recording Trans history. If you know any Trans kids or are one yourself, contact me at Kaanfight@gmail.com if you would wish to be interviewed.